User talk:Otval12345

Prince

I get that but it's also the word "title" about to be used 3 times in the article. Would you prefer if it's just the word "prince" instead, but even then I don't feel fine with it since it's an Undertale comparison at this time. — Link [ T | C ] 17:26, 23 January 2026 (UTC)

I feel that the real world concept of "royal titles" and titles in the party menu are distinct enough to not be confused by the reader. I also think that an Undertale comparsion there is fine, since that section already compares their appearances, and therefore it is pretty natural to note that their royal titles are similar too. Asriel is the prince of monsters, while Ralsei is the prince from the dark. Otval12345 (talk) 17:35, 23 January 2026 (UTC)

Not talking mechanic, talking about the word "title" alone, plus the third "title" in question I was about to cite was Hug Prince. It causes a slightly altered scene, which is more relevant to the word and in-game. — Link [ T | C ] 17:39, 23 January 2026 (UTC)

I think that the word "royal" before the word "title" is enough to understand that it is used in a different meaning there, and no one will think that "Hug Prince" is his official royal title. Otval12345 (talk) 17:47, 23 January 2026 (UTC)

I don't really agree, when we had mishaps like "rank" be used for the "title" article because Toby wrote it like that. "Prince" is fine as a standalone. — Link [ T | C ] 17:54, 23 January 2026 (UTC)

The word "title" is also used to mean Chapter Select menu in the game's settings, and it causes no confusion. Otval12345 (talk) 18:00, 23 January 2026 (UTC)

That's not in a near-similar looking context at a glance. — Link [ T | C ] 18:12, 23 January 2026 (UTC)

Gif Ralsei

Your GIF has dithering issues. I made a video guide for wiki editors; you might find it useful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHat7g8dG3k&list=PLrHBkNzYaFMlzNG2aMVtIyVHZA9OixBiy DubstepDude1 (talk) 13:23, 24 January 2026 (UTC)

Page move protection

Hello.

I have noticed your attempt to move a page in compliance with the new Manual of Style updates. The filter you tripped has been disabled, so you should be able to continue moving pages.

Thank you for your contributions! F-sharp (talk | contribs) 15:17, 25 January 2026 (UTC)

Abuse filter block

I wanted to remove some duplicate information from the Dark World article, but was blocked by the Abuse Filter. Can someone please unlock me? Thanks Otval12345 (talk) 22:23, 9 February 2026 (UTC)

Just saw, sorry about that! I've let the admins know. Unfortunately the Dark World article is a bigger WIP than most other articles... so I recommend you remove them in segments so the AbuseFilter doesn't try to block you again. — Link [ T | C ] 22:28, 9 February 2026 (UTC)

Thank you. But, unfortunately, I immediately tried to edit it again, and thus was blocked again Otval12345 (talk) 22:28, 9 February 2026 (UTC)

Yeah I saw, right when I was typing a response... you should be good now! — Link [ T | C ] 22:29, 9 February 2026 (UTC)

Thank you Otval12345 (talk) 22:32, 9 February 2026 (UTC)

Ralsei article

Hey! While I'm here, I want to say thanks for helping with standardizing articles and helping fix up Ralsei's article, I appreciate it a lot!

But I have to ask: can you try to not add too much fluff to the Main story section? I know F-sharp shared an old version of the Susie article to you... which happened to have a large chunk of my dated 2022 writing for her in Chapter 1. We're trying to steer away from that, especially for the main characters. I think striking a balance between informative, concise, and letting the citation cover it is probably the best way to go.

Some of your Main story additions are good (Ralsei complimenting Susie at the end of Chapter 4 is that), but are better-suited for either the Relationships or Personality section. I'm also guilty of adding a few similar citations to Main story as well, but they were placeholders until I could fix up the Relationships section... if you'd like, I'd be happy to give you a better idea of what a more complete character article could be like in terms of what could be in the Personality and Relationships section. The Page organization article on the wiki is due for an update as well, anyways. — Link [ T | C ] 23:04, 14 February 2026 (UTC)

Hello, and thank you, but could you please clarify what you mean with "fluff" in the Main story section? Besides adding dialogue references to already existing content and making several very small clarifications, my only addition to the Main story section is a description of Ralsei's breakdown in the end of Chapter 4, with the "It's okay not to smile" / "Good. Keep smiling" choice". After it being reverted by F-sharp, I reduced the amount of text there to make it look less like a play-by-play, making it mainly illustrate Ralsei's struggles with the prophecy and the difference between that two choices. Information about Ralsei complimenting Susie there consists of only 5 words, and moving it into the Relationships section would reduce the flow of the text, so it's better to copy it there instead of moving. Otval12345 (talk) 00:04, 15 February 2026 (UTC)

You're welcome! "Fluff" is adding too much detail to a topic. Again, the Susie article in 2022 was loads of that from me. As an example, Ralsei's breakdown is sad, but I think that can be further mentioned in his personality section instead. His stress is hinted at through Chapters 3 and 4, so there is buildup for it. Ralsei being sad earlier in that scene, I think would be better suited to describe Ralsei's compassion in his Personality section too.

All the main characters have character development, and Ralsei certainly goes through it too, which belongs in the Personality header. If you want help with sorting something from those sections, feel free to let me know, because I think the Personality section is a large WIP alongside Relationships. — Link [ T | C ] 00:25, 15 February 2026 (UTC)

Okay. I already restored most of the now deleted information about his prophecy struggles to the Personality section, and hope it will be not reverted there too. However, I still think that the "It's okay not to smile" / "Good. Keep smiling" choice should be mentioned somewhere in the article. I don't think that we can just assume that every player is nice and selects "It's okay not to smile", because it's only there he regains his hope again. If the player is not nice, and selects "Good. Keep smiling", Ralsei becomes even more depressed and hopeless, as evidenced by the now deleted Ralsei_face_holding_back_tears.png (appearing only there in the game).

I also see that F-sharp removed part of my newly added citations from the article, especially from the Weird Route section. Can you please clarify what is "excessive citations", and why adding an extra citation harms the article? Citations don't make the article content more worldly or harder to read, and provide additional valuable information to those who read them. I used the Chapter 2 section as a guideline of how much citations to add, so it's strange to see staying, while being removed from the article. Otval12345 (talk) 01:29, 15 February 2026 (UTC)

In addition, Manual of Style says "any information must be cited with quotes, explanations in footnotes and/or reliable sources", so I don't understand why citations like were removed from the article. Otval12345 (talk) 01:41, 15 February 2026 (UTC)

Citations help us verify the accuracy of written wiki content. They are useful when, say, the wiki makes a claim about a character's personality, and uses a reference to explain why that claim was made. However, the main story section is the one that is the most easily verifiable by just looking up a playthrough video. That isn't to say references aren't appreciated, but there comes a point when adding more references to a particular claim is no longer useful. KockaAdmiralac (talk) 10:24, 15 February 2026 (UTC)

Then please establish a precise guideline of how much citations to add to Main story sections. "A point when adding more references to a particular claim is no longer useful" is very vague, and can imply that there should not be any references at all. Since references benefit the reader too, I propose to establish that claims in Main story sections that can be verified by watching a playthrough video without reading the dialogue do not require references, but all others do. This will require to return some of the deleted references, but will allow to remove others. Otval12345 (talk) 19:50, 15 February 2026 (UTC)

I do think improving page organization for citations would be a good idea. Things like "try to keep the citation relevant to the subject", noteworthiness, and sometimes length. I looked at citations 3-5 here, and I noticed they are just Ralsei exclaiming something, but there's not much to it besides showcasing how much he stutters... — Link [ T | C ] 05:43, 17 February 2026 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay! I remembered some Undertale 10th Anniversary stuff and had to wind down for a bit for a day for other reasons.

So I've looked and I was right that Ralsei's personality section lacked structure overall. I was concerned it was hard to add new information to, so I just went through it today to balance it all out so it should be easier to both read and add to. I've also added editing notes on things that could have more info, but I can't cover myself without playing, and it might take a while for me to get to it- it's there if you'd or anyone else would like to add more there! I did end up trimming the prophecy section you mentioned, but it's mostly because it was a bit of a summary from Chapter 4.

Also as for the prompts: I think since Ralsei has distinct reactions, the citations could be there for the end of Chapter 4. Possibly for Kris instead too... — Link [ T | C ] 05:28, 17 February 2026 (UTC)

Well, if it's considered "fluff" for the Chapter 4 Main story subsection, then that summary from Chapter 4 should be somewhere else, right? Just removing it from the article makes it incomplete Otval12345 (talk) 08:52, 17 February 2026 (UTC)

I did mention it's okay to add! Just that it doesn't need to be much information. I'll try to readd it, I was working on balancing depth and focus on the Main story section anyways. — Link [ T | C ] 15:53, 17 February 2026 (UTC)

Maybe we can then just readd this? I don't think that this is too much information, given it's now summarized in the Personality section:

When interacting with Ralsei, he highly appreciates Susie's kindness, and expresses his hopelessness because his efforts to change the prophecy panels by acting inconsistently with it and being kind have failed. He tries to comfort Kris by forcing a smile.

If Kris then tells Ralsei "It's okay not to smile" and comforts him, Ralsei admits that he is scared and that it is becoming "harder and harder" to hide it by smiling all the time. Inspired by Susie’s "naive hope", he begins to believe again that the future can change and that there is more than the ending depicted in the prophecy.

If Kris tells Ralsei "Good. Keep smiling" instead, Ralsei promises that he will ensure they have a wonderful adventure, concluding that this is exactly what Kris wants, while holding back tears. Otval12345 (talk) 16:01, 17 February 2026 (UTC)

---

Working on it right now! Some of this information belongs in the Relationships section. As an example, "he highly appreciates Susie's kindness" is something that fits for Susie in Relationships.

Kris's is pretty bare right now, but I'd have to replay through all of Deltarune to help iron out sections like that... I was using Main story as a partial trail set up for it, too. — Link [ T | C ] 16:05, 17 February 2026 (UTC)

"he highly appreciates Susie's kindness" is already in the Susie relationship subsection, so there is nothing in the way to remove it, since I just copied my reverted edit there. Or maybe leave it because it gives context to the shared citation. Otval12345 (talk) 16:10, 17 February 2026 (UTC)

Hey, the issue is that you've made the paragraph overfocus on Ralsei being hopeless, that's why it looks like that paragraph is centered on the prophecy. There's some editing notes I put that mentions the potential for depth there, and one of your past edits made me think you don't like the section appearing overly negative, but the current positions of the last 2 paragraphs look like that right now, when the initial "As the Chapters progress" line was meant to balance that. — Link [ T | C ] 22:32, 17 February 2026 (UTC)

Hey. I don't think that there are any issues. Before my edit, the "As the Chapters progress" line created confusion by saying that Ralsei began to try to prevent the prophecy's ending from happening only in later Chapters. Therefore I clarified that and expanded the paragraph a little. The whole Ralsei's interaction with the prophecy consists of him having, loosing and then regaining his hope again, since there is no information about actually prevented prophecy events to this time. It can be extended with the potential connection of Ralsei knowing about the ferris wheel scene in Chapter 2 to his knowledge of the prophecy, especially his Weird Route reaction, but it's still connected to the hope to circumvent the prophecy.

Given the nature of the Ralsei's interaction with the prophecy, with it being a highly negative (but important) theme for him, this paragraph looks negative too. The depth you are proposing is not so closely related to the prophecy, and therefore would overload this paragraph. It deserves it's own paragraph, through, which of course, will balance that too. "finding it difficult to feign a smile to hide his fears" can be moved to that paragraph too, making the existing paragraph exclusively to be about his prophecy-related character development and hope. Otval12345 (talk) 22:45, 17 February 2026 (UTC)

For context, I was referring to the self-worth paragraph too, it looks weirdly out of place now when there's a sentence above talking about his hope being renewed. — Link [ T | C ] 22:51, 17 February 2026 (UTC)

Yes, it definitely looks out of place. But I think of that paragraph more of a placeholder until we write something more factual and verifiable about his overall character development. "Owing to his low self-esteem" is a very bold statement, and there is not so much citations that can directly confirm that. I can't confirm "Ralsei does not consider himself to be important to Kris and Susie" in the game too, since the "Just forget about us" dialogue was more of a forced one. "He expects them to abandon him after they make friends in the Light World" is also not exactly accurate, and "Ralsei also encourages fellow Darkners to prioritize the feelings of Lightners over their own" can be replaced with a more positive and accurate summary of his monologue to Tenna. Otval12345 (talk) 22:57, 17 February 2026 (UTC)

I think it's better to remove that paragraph for now, something about Ralsei wanting to protect both Kris and Susie is on the topic of friendship anyways. It's bothering me a lot. — Link [ T | C ] 23:47, 17 February 2026 (UTC)

I fully agree with you. Otval12345 (talk) 23:53, 17 February 2026 (UTC)